John Davis

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Posts by John Davis

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  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

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  John Davis

  Wait JP are you saying that viewing the law as black and white is a sign of not being mentally healthy. I will have to disagree with you on that one. Not trying to justify breaking the law is not a mental health issue it is being a law abiding citizen.
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  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  JP but the problem is what is the unjust law. Is it an unjust law not to hack into someone else's computer system. Is it an unjust law to not record someone if it is illegal where you live. I don't think that those are unjust laws, those are laws.

  It is not the same by saying that African American's can only sit in the back of a bus. That is an unjust law because you have narrowed it to affect only a limited class of people. But what I am talking about is breaking neutral laws that affect everyone no matter who you are.

  I don't think that the ends justify the means. You may think so but I don't.
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  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  orphan crow. Just to have people's opinions on this. I guess I started to think about it when I was listening to a youtube video and the person recorded a conversation with the US Legal department and they were in California where I know it is illegal to record without the second person's consent and well over the phone to it would be a federal crime as well. Some of the comments made it sound like there was nothing wrong with what they did, I am sure they meant by talking to the Legal Department but I thought how can someone be proud of another person who broke the law. So I wanted to get people's opinion on this.
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  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  And I was not planning on giving my opinion till you asked for it. Like I said I wasn't trying to say that anyone was right or wrong, you specifically asked me for my opinion. I knew I wasn't going to change anyone's mind nor was that my goal. I wanted to just get opinions.
• 
  49

  Rookie exJW Question

  by Phoebe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

  every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

  i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

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  John Davis

  Dubstepped:

  I was responding to this portion of the original post:

  Can anyone tell me if the Watchtower really did support this person in their court case and was it because they were worried they'd lose their charity status?

  And I responded to the issue on the statement that the child custody packet is secret. I stated that it may not be distributed to everyone, but that it isn't secret that it is announced that there is this packet every year.

  So instead of just thinking that I am the one that pushed it off the subject I was responding to the actual post. So why don't you just leave me alone.
• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  I think that breaking the law for any reason is not right. I know that we all break laws from time to time, we all speed or park where we aren't supposed to, but willfully breaking of a felony is wrong no matter what the reason behind it is.

  I think in most modern countries the governments have set up laws that allow you to demand change in legal ways. They will allow you to file petitions, speak to legislatures or go to court. Those are all legal and valid ways to get changes to occur, and that people don't need to resort to illegal means if it is truly a violation of basic human rights.
• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  I will answer your question. I don't know why they would Delay, Appeal or obfuscate. I am not them. I have no idea why they would do those things. You may feel that it is not right, I may feel that it is not right. everyone on here may feel that it is not right. But it is legal.

  So my question goes to you. Do you feel the same way about the Lewis in the Lewis case that she and her counsel was delaying or obfuscating the administration of justice by not complying with the judges order?
• 
  49

  Rookie exJW Question

  by Phoebe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

  every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

  i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  I am not sure if they had it back then. I just know that now there is always a letter stating that. It doesn't really even give legal advice since, at least in the US, family law is so complicated and every case is extremely unique. It just gave a list of cases that courts had ruled that were favorable in the respected country. It is meant so that the publisher can give it to their lawyer so that it will be easier for the lawyer to find the relevant cases. Actually thinking about it, I don't even know that it would be available in every country because obviously, every country is unique with regards to their laws.
• 
  49

  Rookie exJW Question

  by Phoebe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

  every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

  i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  never a jw: most courts that have had this issue raised has determined that JWs are not agents of Watchtower nor is there a fiduciary relationship, so again it would be a question of who would be having to file the taxes with the state.
• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  Ok JP they do comply with the court orders after they have exhausted their rights to appeal. In the Lopez case they exhausted their appeals and are complying. Other than what I can read in the court records that is all I can speak of. I don't answer for watchtower. I can only speak for myself, if I was in a similar situation I would exhaust all of my rights and once I have done so I would then comply.

  They will normally file things with the court under seal. You can't do that with a deposition, how can you appeal a decision about the right to depose someone if the deposition has already occurred. You can't unring that bell.